Wed 16 May 2007
Ivan Eland writes:
“…the world’s greatest nuclear weapons state wants to deny Iran, which lives in a rough neighborhood, a few nuclear warheads. That is not to say that it would be good for the despotically ruled Iran to dominate the gulf region or to acquire nuclear weapons.”
Where’s the evidence that Iran is persuing nuclear weapons?
As David E. Sanger of the N.Y. times points out,
“The material produced so far would have to undergo further enrichment before it could be transformed into bomb-grade material. To accomplish that, Iran would likely first have to evict the I.A.E.A. inspectors, as North Korea did four years ago.”
No such eviction as of this writing.
The only evidence that I see of a motive to acquire nuclear weapons on Iran’s part is best exemplified by V.P. Cheney’s recent aircraft carrier antics in their face.
And it’s a long technological path from producing weapons grade nuclear fuel to effectively shooting it at the world’s number one nuclear power on the other side of the planet.
If an American citizen or group of citizens is concerned, they should be free to try to alter the situation. But how is it Washington’s problem if Iran is “despotically ruled”?
Why are we concerned with who “dominates” the gulf region?
Why can’t we just send empty oil tankers, fill them up, write a check and mind our own damned business?
We consume oil; they produce oil. The oil “dependency” perspective fails to account for the fact of interdependency; how long would wealthy oil-producing states stay wealthy if they refused to sell to their best customer?
At least twice a week I go to a Publix supermarket.
When I’m there, I never shoplift, I never vandalize their property. I’m never abuse or threaten or fail to respect the employees and management. I just take what I want off the selves, put it in the cart, take it to checkout, pay for it and leave.
But by the logic of U.S. foreign policy, I should be concerned. My “grocery dependency” makes me “vulnerable” to Publix arbitrarily refusing to sell to me. Actually, it’s Publix that should feel threatened.
I guess I’d better start thinking about taking military action against Publix, no? At least that would appear to be what John Bolton would suggest:
“…if the choice is between a nuclear-capable Iran and the use of force, then I think we need to look at the use of force.”
That sort of raving rapaciousness is hardly a surprise from the likes of Bolton, who the above-linked UK Telegraph article ominously reminds us in closing, is “…still a highly influential voice and Mr Bush remains adamant that he will not allow Iran to become armed with nuclear weapons.
The Pentagon has drawn up contingency plans for military action and some senior White House officials share Mr Bolton’s thinking.”
But it’s a bit disturbing coming, albeit in a much milder form, from Eland, a senior fellow at the ostensively libertarian Independent Institute.
Bombs away.
—The Bikemessenger
4 Responses to “When In Doubt, Bomb”
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May 21st, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Are you actually comparing the theocratic, dictatorial regime in Iran with a grocery store?
It is little wonder that our party holds so little respect.
The government of Iran is a supporter of terrorism against nations that have offered no threat to Iran. In fact, the only nation that presented any threat against that nation was Iraq, which is now pre-occupied.
The last time the US interferred with Iran was the early 50’s when a communist movement backed by our enemy, the USSR, tried to take control of that nation and lead it into the Soviet sphere of influence. Our CIA stopped that and put the Shah’s family into power.
The Shah’s group was a little harsh on some of their critcs, but compared to the governments in the rest of the region, they were pretty benign.
Regardless of that, the theocrats overthrew the Shah and immediately committed an act of war against our nation. The worst President in our history did nothing to address this.
This oversight sent the correct message that our culture is weak and cowardly. So the theocrats started spending money on Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Hamas. Although our nation did little too nothing to directly interfere with any of these organizations they have all chosen to target Americans.
Certainly, our interventionist foriegn policy has been one of the reasons that we are hated, but only one. The others reasons are cultural.
Whatever the reasons, there are millions of people that want us all dead. So what do we do about it? What actions should we take to protect ourselves from a threat that has already killed thousands of our citizens and destroyed private property?
The best that I can glean from the Libertarians is that we should pull in all of our forces, build a Maginot Line(the last one worked real well)on the beaches and sit back in prosperity and bliss. Frankly, this sounds pretty good to me.
I wouldn’t mind just sitting back without any worry of some psychotic asshole driven to blow me away. But that’s not reality.
The Iranian government has already made veiled threats against this nation along with their shots against Isreal.
Force is always initiated with a thought. Your punch doesn’t reach my nose unless you think to punch it first.
So, Iran has already initiated force against the United States. They are actively involved in a foriegn intervention of their own and killing our troops in the effort. They have financed force against their neighbors.
So what would you do? Do you think that retreat will mollify such folk? Will they leave us alone behind the Maginot Line, or pop off an EMP and reduce our economy to the stone age?
Or will they want to role us up into their Jihad along with the Spandiards, Indians, Indonesians, Malaysian, Algerians and sundry others that that have provoked their ire?
Maybe their just kidding.
What do you think?
Bruce
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:13 am
Thank you, Bruce, for the suggestion that we should punish people based on their thoughts. Where are the thought police when you need them?
I advocate free trade as a weapon to undermine hostile governments. It works much better than anything else we have tried, including economic sanctions.
If I were an Iranian, I would be deeply concerned that the US has conquered the country to my left and the country to my right. I would seek to create a strong defense by developing a nuclear weapon. Iran is acting rationally in response to US aggression.
Bruce, you make assertions that have no basis in fact. No where did Osama Bin Laden say, “I am attacking you because you have blue jeans, rock and roll, and bikinis.” He said quite clearly that he was attacking the US because of our bases in the middle east, our attack on Iraq, and our support of Israel.
Let’s try to practice some Libertarianism and cut the foreign aid to everybody. Then bring our troops home. Then, let’s see what happens. We can always send our troops back if we need to, but I seriously doubt that will happen.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:12 am
I didn’t suggest punishing anyone for a thought. What I said was that all force is initiated with a thought. Dealing with that force, or the threat thereof, is the issue.
I also advocate the ending of foriegn aid and foriegn involvements but that will not end the threat against us. Americans will still be involved overseas through the free trade that we both advocate, and their behavior will sometimes invite further animosity.
So Osama and crew attacked us for our bases and interference, as well as our support for Isreal. So what did the Algerians do to invite the slaughter in their nation? Or the Malaysians or Indonesians, for that matter?
Holes remain in the standard argument and the notion that we need only remove government involvement from the world stage is too simplistic for words.
We must certainly reign in our tendency to police every crisis on the globe, but we must stay prepared to respond to any threat against our citizenry….and be willing to respond in a manner that men such as Osama and Ahmjinidad will respect.
May 26th, 2007 at 2:06 am
Bruce Hoepner Says:
May 21st, 2007 at 7:08 pm e
“The government of Iran is a supporter of terrorism against nations that have offered no threat to Iran.”
Can you site an example? Surely you can’t be refering to their assistance to Hamas or Hezbollah. Isreal, A nuclear weapons-wielding, non-signatory to the NPT, hardly qualifies as a “nation… that have offered no threat to Iran.”
“The last time the US interferred with Iran was the early 50’s…”
Sorry, but that’s a totally false statement. It doesn’t take much to establish that:
(109th U.S. Congress: 2005-2006)
S. 333 [109th]: Iran Freedom and Support Act of 2005
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-333
“SUPPORTING THE TERRORISTS” by Tom blanton
http://www.pnar.org/mek.htm
ISLAMO-COMMIES TO THE RESCUE ! (II ?)
http://www.smallgov.org/?p=384
“…when a communist movement backed by our enemy, the USSR, tried to take control of that nation and lead it into the Soviet sphere of influence. Our CIA stopped that and put the Shah’s family into power.”
No, the CIA was critically instrumental in overthrowing a popular, democratically elected president. This was motivated by his threat to nationaize the oil industry, an act that gets no defense here. But that’s the oil company’s problem, not the CIA’s.
It’s not the place of the U.S. government to protect the off-shore interests of U.S.-based private businesses. That is for them to deal with, the cost accounted for and passed on to the consumer, in the manner of negociating a PSA with an undeveloped oil reserve owner.
If Americans must pay to protect these interests, a free-market system mandates it be as comsumers, not taxpayers.
“The Shah’s group was a little harsh on some of their critcs, but compared to the governments in the rest of the region, they were pretty benign.”
That’s not for you to judge. That’s for Iranians to judge, and no one else.
Additionally, would you be amenable to an outside force imposing a dictator on this country, and telling us we must be satisfied if he’s a bit less oppressive than Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez?
I would argue that that is, in fact what we have. But it’s a product of our own cumulative stupidity, not an outside force. And that makes more than a small difference.
Sorry, but the firm foundation of Iranian enmity towards the U.S. government must be reckoned with.
Administrator Says:
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:13 am
“I advocate free trade as a weapon to undermine hostile governments. It works much better than anything else we have tried, including economic sanctions.”
In fact, free trade works so well, even other species are in to it, as I point out here:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22782#comment-100410
And that’s precisely why the Washington gang is doing every thing it can to undermine Iran’s international trade. War is always bad for the combatant’s trading partners, and for a variety of reasons, the White House elite has already made up their minds to attack Iran.
“If I were an Iranian…I would seek to create a strong defense by developing a nuclear weapon. Iran is acting rationally in response to US aggression.”
Yes, but let’s not forget two matters.
One, the power elite in Tehran is taken to be strict theocratic ideologues, and has stated that it would be against Islam to develop nuclear weapons. I understand your point, Greg, but we can’t pick and choose what they’re going to be inflexible dogmatists about, if we’re going to take them to be inflexible dogmatists.
Other than the compelling motivation to which you allude, as I have frequently pointed out here, there is no evidence that Iran seeks nuclear weapons.
Moreover, according to the NY Times’ David E. Sanger
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/14/world/middleeast/14cnd-iran.html?ex=1336795200&en=3ae32ab8d9495845&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
“The material produced so far would have to undergo further enrichment before it could be transformed into bomb-grade material. To accomplish that, Iran would likely first have to evict the I.A.E.A. inspectors, as North Korea did four years ago.
Even then, it is unclear whether the Iranians have the technology to produce a weapon small enough to fit atop their missiles, a significant engineering challenge.”
Administrator Says:
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:13 am
“…bring our troops home. Then, let’s see what happens. We can always send our troops back if we need to…”
The U.S. spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined. Aside from this approach removing the true motivation for the terrorist threat against us, these resources could, at least in part, be devoted to what ever residual threat still remained.
Bruce Hoepner Says:
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:12 am e
“Americans will still be involved overseas through the free trade that we both advocate, and their behavior will sometimes invite further animosity.”
Most probably, Bruce. But don’t conflate that, which would likely be of a much smaller scale, and necessarily haphazard by nature, with the impression made by the large scale military presences and actions for the federal government.
It would most certainly not approach the magnitude and severity of what goes on today. And in so being, would likely be blamed on the individual perpetrators than on their country of origin. Not to mention the likelihood that the cases of acceptable behavior and spread of good will would figure to more than counterbalance.
“….and be willing to respond in a manner that men such as Osama and Ahmjinidad will respect.”
Agreed. But we must also appreciate the historical perspective and acknowledge that hostilies, while they may not have been initiated by the U.S. in a given instance, were initiated from our side of the conflict.
We can’t expect this approach to instantaneously defuse hostilies, that’s why we must indeed, as you say, “…be willing to respond…”.
But that’s only the half of it; we must also be willing to acknowledge responsibility. That, combined with actual withdrawal, not just from Iraq, but from the other 700-odd U.S. military bases around the globe would send an unequivical message to the rest of humanity. That being that we won’t be picking anymore fights, but if you pick one with us, you’ll find us as strong, if not stronger than ever.
From the description of a radio interview by Scott Horton of Philip Girald, a former military intelligence and CIA counter-terrorism official:
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/05/23/philip-giraldi-4/
“When pressed on the question of whether bin Laden would want to send al Qaeda guys to “follow us home” from the Middle East should we withdraw, if only to try to keep us there for al Qaeda’s benefit (such as providing them with increased numbers of recruits and targets for them to train on), Giraldi replied,
“I don’t see that. I think he has a constituency and he has an agenda and he’s very focused on both. His agenda is not to pursue the United States to the United States after we leave the Middle East. … If we were to basically get out of Iraq and get out of the region – in the intrusive way that we’re there right now – that would take a lot of the fuel out of Osama bin Laden’s fire. I don’t see that there’s any agenda to follow us to the United States to destroy our way of life or whatever the explanation would be.”
Bruce Hoepner Says:
May 21st, 2007 at 7:08 pm e
“Are you actually comparing the theocratic, dictatorial regime in Iran with a grocery store?”
No, I’m not “comparing”, the two. I’m only pointing out the strong bias towards peace of free market economics and how that abstract principle transcends a wide range of material manifestations. A range so wide as to be far beyond the scope of the behavior of a single primate species, as I pointed out in the above referenced afterdowningstreet comment:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22782#comment-100410
Furthermore, an excerpt from:
“Permanent Bases: A Recipe for Permanent Terrorism”
http://www.antiwar.com/moore/?articleid=11018
May 25, 2007
by Thomas Gale Moore (…a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He has a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago in economics and has taught at Carnegie Institution of Technology (now Carnegie Mellon University), Michigan State University, UCLA, and in the Stanford Business School. He has written numerous peer-reviewed economic articles and several books.)
“The only way to prevent another 9/11 is to vacate the Middle East. We have no need to be there. Some would argue that our dependence on foreign oil requires that we control the largest supply of petroleum in the world. This is untrue; there is no necessity for America to rule the oil-rich territories. Countries with large supplies of oil have no use for that fuel except to sell it. All of those oil-based states have become dependent on the revenues that come from selling it. They have no choice. Nothing can be done with that liquid except market it. Even if radical Islamists take control of one of the petro-states, its government will still have to sell the oil to generate the revenue necessary to maintain its power…
If the idea, however, is to secure peace and stop terrorist attacks on the U.S., keeping our troops in the Middle East will fail. It will only generate more terrorism. We must pull our soldiers back to the United States and stop trying to police the world.”
And we thought it was just me.
—The Bikemessenger